Edentate Attractions

Edentate Attractions edentulous@gay.com

Part One

My story is true, even if some of the names have been changed. The event described happened over thirty years ago so, if inaccuracies have crept in, please be indulgent. It also contains accounts of sex between consenting adult men. If this offends you, please do not read any further.

The events I am about to describe happened in 1971 when I was twenty one. I had left school when I was seventeen and two years later left home as I had been posted by Barclays Bank to its main branch in Nottingham, where I had rented digs.

Let be describe myself as I was then. I was short, slightly built and looked younger than my age. In fact many people thought I was still at school probably on account of the way I dressed. I was not very interested in my appearance and dressed for comfort. Typically I wore a blue nylon anorak, grey flannel trousers and sensible, rubber-soled shoes. I am also very short sighted and have worn strong corrective lenses for as long as I can remember. At that time I still wore glasses with the same plastic frames as I had when I was at school. All in all, I had a rather gawky and unimposing appearance. I was also quite shy. From my early teens, I knew that I was gay and had a number of gay relationships. However, since I moved to Nottingham, I had been very much on my own.

It was one evening when, after seeing Forest play at the City Ground, I took the bus back to Slab Square to have a drink at Yates' Wine Bar before finding something to eat on my way home. Yates' had a large downstairs bar, rather like a Wild West saloon, only larger. Against the walls behind the bar counters were large casks of sherry, port and Madeira, but beer was served as well. It was not very busy so I settled down standing against the bar in the corner as unobtrusively as I could. I do not know why, may be it was because I was wearing a red and white striped Forest scarf, which gave an obvious opening for a conversation, but I started chatting with the man standing next to me. I suppose he started by asking me the score. He was older than me. I guessed that he was in his mid thirties. He looked like a college lecturer, wearing an old tweed jacket, thick turtle neck sweater and corduroy trousers. He also wore glasses with strong lenses, which probably meant he empathised with my severe myopia. He too may have been "Four Eyes", the bespectacled weakling that nobody wanted in their sports team at school. However, he was now well built and muscular. In fact, it turned out that Derek was an architect, working for the City Council. Somehow, although I normally try to curtail any conversation with a stranger, I warmed to Derek immediately. He appeared interested in what I had to say and looked straight at me with his penetrating blue eyes when I spoke. It may have been instinct but I knew he was gay and that he was horny and he must have made the same assessment of me. Our gaydars seemed to be working perfectly that evening. When he put his hand momentarily on my shoulder, I made no movement to indicate that it was unwelcome. The next time his hand lingered longer, as he stroked my arm and then retreated again. I did not know what he saw in me but I had obviously struck a cord.

When I had finished the pint of beer he had bought me, I asked whether he wanted another. He declined and suggested that instead we find something to eat.

"Would you like some Chinese?" he asked.

"Yep, that's fine by me", I replied.

"There's a good take-away near me", he continued. "I can quite understand if you say no but why don't we pick up a meal there and eat it at my place." I agreed to this suggestion without hesitation.

We then took the bus to New Basford, where he had his flat. On the way back from the take-away, Derek put his arm on my shoulder. It seemed natural that he should do. When we arrived, we entered into a small but elegantly furnished flat in a modern style. It consisted of a galley kitchen, a living cum dining room and a bedroom of it. Derek gestured towards the sofa, so I sat back in it while he went to the kitchen, returning a minute or so later with plates, spoons and forks and two cans of ale, which he set out on the coffee table before me where he had already left the food in its polystyrene boxes. I started to eat. In fact I had not realised quite how hungry I was. Derek did the same, neither of us saying very much until we had finished. However, through out the meal Derek periodically put his hand on my thigh. When I had stopped eating and was finishing off the last mouthfuls of ale in the can, he moved his hand directly over my cock which started to harden in response.

"You don't mind do you?" he asked. I just looked up at him and smiled. The growing bulge in my trousers was obviously a signal of encouragement as Derek accepted the unspoken invitation and started to unzip the flies of my trousers. Opening them up, he started to fondle my cock at which he stared intently.

"Relax Bryan" he whispered. "Are you ready?"

"Yes", I answered.

I leaned back in the sofa.

"You're not nervous are you?" he went on, never taking his eyes off my cock which had swelled to its maximum extent.

"Of course not", I replied.

He proceeded to pull my pants and trousers down below my knees and pushed my shirt upwards. Sliding his right hand under me, I could feel his fingers caressing the edges of my arse hole, then his middle finger moving into it to explore further. As he leaned over me, his hand moved towards his face I thought to remove his glasses. Instead to my surprise, Derek deposited a complete set of dentures on the coffee table in front of me. I could not see his face now but I had no idea that Derek had no teeth and had to wear dentures. I would have thought that I would have been revolted by the sight of a set of plastic false teeth still showing the evidence of the meal they had helped to consume but I was not. Now that he had exhibited his dentures, I was riveted by them. I did not appreciate then but Derek's dentures had triggered a fetish for them which I had never had before.

First Derek's tongue explored my slit, trying to force its way in, teasing me, while his other hand fondled my testicles. Then his mouth enveloped my cock; his gums almost masticating my penis in a soft, enticing way. I had never experienced anything like it before. I twisted and turned with sensual pleasure. It was a most incredible sensation as my cock was gripped by the rounded, smooth surfaces of his gums, moving backwards and forwards, my cock slipping further down his throat.

"Fuck, I've never had anything as good before", I whispered.

Derek continued silently, stimulating the inside of my arse hole with his probing sensitive finger and creating incredible sensations with his tongue and gums. If only it could have lasted longer. I could not help myself. I simply exploded, shooting load after load of cum into Derek's mouth, which he managed to swallow while still sucking my cock with his toothless jaws, making it quiver with sensitivity.

As I became flaccid, Derek sat up and smiled at me. His face was quite transformed without his dentures. He looked older because his lips were sunken and his chin protruded slightly. His tongue seemed to be able to move more freely as he licked the last traces of my cum from his lips. Yet despite his altered look, his appearance seemed to be compensated by a wide, guiltless smile and a soft lisping way of speaking. Somehow the loss of his teeth had not disfigured him at all. It just seemed natural.

After he had returned from the kitchen, having rinsed his dentures to remove the trace of food on the plates, he put his dentures back into his mouth, his face changing back again immediately to its familiar look. Turning to Derek I remarked jokingly "It was worth losing your teeth just for that, thanks".

"I know it was worth it", he replied smiling. "Now come on Bryan, take your clothes off and come to bed". I followed Derek's instructions and, leaving my clothes in a heap on the sofa, walked naked into his bedroom.

"Come in", he said from inside the bathroom. "Do you want a pee?"

"Not yet, thanks", I replied.

As I lay on his bed, he appeared with a glass of water with his dentures steeping inside and a tube of lube. He had undressed. I could see he was completely erect and as randy as hell.

"After your blow job, this is the least you deserve", I said, taking off my glasses and bending my knees up, presenting him with my buttocks and a shaved hairless arse hole; my sphincter tight, pink and inviting, I hoped. Kneeling in front of me, Derek bent over me. I was not sure what he was going to do. Then I felt the sensation of his tongue working its way around the outside of my arse hole. I had never been rimmed before. His curving sinuous tongue then tantalised my hole as it worked its way in. I just writhed in response to the arousal Derek was causing. I was close to having a second orgasm already. He moved forward and started to nibble at my penis and testicles again. Oh fuck, even the memory of it gives me a thrill!

As he moved further over me, he gently lubed my arse and then widened my hole by putting successively three fingers in it. Then in a swift motion without giving me time instinctively to resist, his seven inch shaft slipped in as he started rhythmically to shag me, while massaging my erect penis with his body...

Part Two

I woke up in bed with Derek. It was quite light so we had both slept soundly. Sitting up in bed I looked at my watch. It was seven o'clock. Derek had his back to me. He was still asleep. Putting on my glasses, I could see over him to the bedside table. On it was a tumbler with his dentures soaking in it. Again, I seemed to be captivated by them and Derek's toothlessness. The thought of it clearly turned me on because I was becoming erect again. Both my parents wore dentures so at home the sight of steeping dentures was not unusual. However, I had never reacted to them as I did to the sight of Derek's. I also thought back to the evening we had enjoyed together. I had never had sex with an older man. Somehow it seemed to represent a mile stone. It gave me a right of passage; I had come of age. This would be a bond that I would have with Derek. I knew I would always appreciate it.

When Derek woke up, the first thing he did was to put in his dentures before greeting me. Later as we sat in bed sipping our mugs of tea, I could resist it no longer. I had to quiz him about his dentures. Derek then told me about his experiences. He had his teeth out when he was twenty one; that was some thirteen years ago. He needed to have three teeth out because they were so decayed and could not be saved. He could have saved his other teeth but he wanted them all out before they too started to cause trouble. This was like his father who fully supported his decision to seek dentures. He had had all his teeth extracted as a young man too. "Teeth are more trouble than they are worth", he used to say. Derek also wanted to be toothless. He explained that he had no regrets about having dentures at all. He could eat most things with is dentures and they were comfortable to wear. However, the best part was when your dentures are out of your mouth. As he said this, he pulled first his upper then his lower denture out of his mouth and put them in my hands. I was mesmerised by them. They were warm and damp. They were lighter but larger and bulkier than I had imagined.

"They turn you on, don't they", he said and curling his fingers around my erect shaft, already leaking precum, he starting to masturbate me. "Feel this", he said. Taking back one of the plates he had given me and putting it on the pillow beside him, he guided my hand so that I could run my fingers along his toothless gums. "I like the feel of my gums", he said. "They are so sensitive. I like curling my lips around them. I also enjoy feeling them with my tongue which has so much more room to move."

"I never thought that toothlessness was such a turn on. I just thought it was an inevitable part of getting old", I replied."

"Try this", he said as he leaned over to kiss me. His mouth was wide open. At first his tongue resisted the entry of mine. Then it gave way, allowing my tongue to explore his gums and palate. It was my first toothless kiss. It was incredible. I could not control myself. The exploration of his gums with my tongue and Derek's gentle fondling of my penis caused another orgasm. My cum just pumped out uncontrollably, the creamy ribbons of my spunk to be eagerly lapped up later by Derek. It was also evident that Derek enjoyed it as much. His dick was a hard as a rock too. It was starting to dawn on me then that I wanted my teeth out and I would not be satisfied until this had happened. I could see now that Derek had decided that the physical pleasures of wearing dentures and being toothlessness were well worth the social sigma associated with having dentures at a young age.

"I would really like my teeth out too", I said not thinking what that would actually entail.

"Are you really sure Bryan? It's a big step; there's no going back", he replied. "It's much more difficult now than it was in the late `50's. Then dentists were eager to pull out all your teeth at the first suggestion. I haven't been to the dentist since I had my present dentures made several years ago. In fact my dentures need a reline or replacement as they are getting quite loose. If he is still there, I will ask whether the dentist would pull yours."

"Yeh, that's a great idea", I said, no believing for a moment that anything would come of this suggestion.

Part Three

Every so often I used to met Derek and stay over at his flat. Each time my stay reinforced my desire to have my teeth extracted so that I could join him in a world of new sensations. Before making love the first thing I did was to take out Derek's dentures. The feel of them as I pulled each denture passed his soft, yielding lips aroused me. Before placing them aside, I always examined them closely. The sight of them made me feel as randy as hell. It heightened the pleasures to come.

As I got to know Derek better, I also observed more closely how dentures really worked in his mouth and how Derek had adapted to them. His mouth and lips moved a little differently, which kept his dentures in place, except that there were times when his lower denture looked as if it was floating in his mouth and sometimes rose upwards when he spoke. He cut up his food in smaller portions and there were certain foods that he avoided like crusty bread and nuts. When he bit with his teeth he bit with the side and not the front teeth. He did not so much as bite his food but rather ground it down with a circular movement of his jaws. After each meal he would rinse his dentures as he said food worked its way under them which was uncomfortable. In the evenings and at night he usually took his dentures out to rest his gums or so he said. Sometimes, consciously or unconsciously, he would loosen his dentures with his tongue and move them about in his mouth. He clearly liked the physical sensation of dentures in his mouth. He also ran his tongue under his lower denture when food became lodged under it. He had no embarrassment whatsoever about his dentures and made no effort to conceal from his friends the fact that he wore them. For all these little changes, life without your own teeth did not seem such a handicap. When I was not with Derek, I used to fantasise about having no teeth and what full dentures would feel like. I also started to recognise very quickly those around me who wore dentures. There were many more of them than I would have previously thought. Often they were in their twenties or thirties. "So may be it is not such a big deal after all", I said to myself.

One day when I was staying with Derek, he asked me "Do you want to see the dentist who pulled my teeth? I went to have my dentures fixed. He's still there".

"Of course", I answered. "I can't remember when I last went to a dentist; certainly not since I was thirteen or fourteen years old. My teeth are already quite a mess, maybe they are already beyond saving. I've never looked after them properly. Anyway I hate dentists."

"They are probably in the same poor state as mine were at your age", said Derek. "I thought you would want to see the dentist. I told him we would come to see him at 5:00 p.m. on Wednesday, after work. We can meet up beforehand"

"Do you think that he will pull my teeth?" I asked.

Yes, if you want it. I have already discussed it with him", he continued.

I could hardly believe it. What was just a fantasy was becoming real. Did I really want this to happen? Now I was not so sure. "Anyway I can always change my mind. I haven't committed to anything", I thought.

During the days that followed, I became more ambivalent about losing my teeth; at times I wanted it badly and as often I feared I was about to make a terrible mistake which I might live to regret for the rest of my life. I had fitful nights worrying about it. "I must be mad", I thought. Then again I would say "Fuck, Derek's gums are so fantastic. He obviously enjoys life with no teeth".

Part Four

On the Wednesday evening, we met outside the bank and took the bus to the dentist's surgery. It was in quite a run down part of the city and did not look out of place. Everything had seen better days, even the dentist who seemed to be in his sixties.

"So you are the lad that wants his teeth out", said the dentist as he greeted us in an otherwise empty waiting room. "Come in Mr. Harrison", he said, signalling that Derek should wait outside. He then sat me down in the operating chair and started to examine my teeth.

After probing my teeth for several minutes, he said "You should look after your teeth better. Several of your teeth are already severely decayed and if they are not treated now they will soon be lost. If you go on like this you will eventually lose the lot. Is that really what you really want? Do you know what you are letting yourself in for?" He had become quite stern.

"I know it is just a question of time before I get dentures. If I am going to lose my teeth anyway, they might as well be taken out now", I responded. "I have no interest in keeping my teeth or looking after them", I went on. "If I have dentures I won't have to go to a dentist again"

"You're wrong on that score, young man. Dentures don't last for ever, they need to be checked regularly and every few years they need replacing", he replied. "Your gums change their shape; they shrink so dentures soon become loose even if they once fitted well."

"My parents both wear dentures, they always have; so does Derek. They are satisfied with them, I know. Lots of people wear dentures. It's quite normal", I argued. "They don't go to dentists very often either', I added petulantly.

"A great number of people in this country do not look after their teeth avoiding dental check-ups. So the inevitable happens", said the dentist bluntly. "They lose their teeth at too early an age and have to wear dentures instead with all the inconvenience and discomfort which comes from them". The dentist then went on to explain the shortcomings of dentures. It was an irreversible procedure. Dentures were poor substitutes for natural teeth. Over the years he had made so many people toothless, some when they were still in their teens. Some people seemed to adapt quite well to dentures; others not so. There was no telling beforehand. For the latter, they had the prospect of a life of discomfort and inconvenience to look forward to. For everyone though their ability to eat was compromised as the strength of their bite was only about ten percent of natural teeth and over time their appearance deteriorated. As he continued with his warnings, my mind wandered as I had expected him to say this. I thought of Derek outside. His appearance certainly had not deteriorated. I imagined him leafing through an old and tatty magazine, a Punch or Illustrated London News, and unconsciously loosening his dentures with his tongue as he did so. He often did this while he was reading or watching television. The image of it emboldened me. In any event I had seen with Derek at first hand the handicap of dentures. It did not seem so bad. I thought I knew what to expect and I anticipated that, like Derek, I would adapt well to dentures.

"Are you absolutely sure?" the dentist asked again. "If you are determined to neglect your teeth, I will extract them now. You are right. If you don't look after them it will only be a short time before they will all decay away given their current poor condition."

"Of course I am sure. I know it is only a question of time. That's why I want them out now. I don't want to wait any longer". My bold answer surprised me as much as it did the dentist. It left no room for doubt

"Let's start then. The sooner they come out the better. You can have dentures instead. That's what you want, isn't it?" said the dentist.

"Yes, that's what I want", I repeated firmly.

It was apparent the debate was over and his effort to dissuade me from the course I was determined to take had failed. He looked at me coldly as he started to prepare for the operation. As he did this I felt that any sympathy he may have had for his patient just drained away. He became brusque and methodical. He didn't speak to me again until the end of the session and then only to remind me of subsequent appointments and to give me a number to call if I was in pain or the bleeding did not stop. His attitude seemed to say "If he doesn't want to listen to reason, give him what he wants whatever the consequences. I've done my best."

During the session, the dentist extracted all my back teeth. It must have taken an hour or more. At times it became monotonous as I heard another crunching sound, a squeak and then the warm feeling as another tooth left its socket, followed by a "plink" as the tooth was dropped into a dish.

Part Five

"Can I see?" asked Derek when we left the surgery.

"Yes", I said, opening my mouth wide and running my tongue across my wounded but empty gums which were still completely numb from the anesthetic.

"Let's go home. It'll start to get a little sore and you will need to rest", said Derek putting his arm around my shoulder. "There's no beer for you tonight Bryan; no solid food either".

During the weeks that followed the bruising and swelling subsided, the sockets closed and my gums gradually healed and hardened. I also became used to chewing my food with my front teeth and exploring my now toothless gums with my tongue. After about a month I was back at the dentist for impressions to be taken so I could be fitted with dentures. Then for the first time the dentist placed the trial dentures in my mouth to see how they fitted. It was my first experience of denture wear. I liked the feel of them from the start. They felt big and bulky, crowding out my palate. At that time the dentist also asked whether I wanted him to replicate my natural teeth in the dentures. I decided that I wanted my appearance to be improved by dentures as I thought my teeth were ugly, being discoloured and irregular. So it was decided that my new teeth would be smaller, more even and whiter than my natural teeth. The dentist told me that most people made the same decision. It also made it easier for the laboratory.

The slowly the day for the final extractions approached. It was a Thursday as I had decided to take a long weekend so I could get used to the dentures before returning to work at the bank. Again I was filled with doubts about what I was really letting myself in for. On several occasions I thought of telephoning Derek to say that I was chickening out but I didn't have the courage to do so. I also knew he would encourage me in the course I was taking and talk me out of any notion of backing out at the last minute. I seemed to be being swept along towards something I was not sure I wanted to happen but I had talked myself into with the active encouragement of Derek, I must add.

Now it was Thursday morning and I was back at the surgery with Derek. I tried to conceal it but I am sure Derek sensed how anxious I was and did his best to reassure me that I was not going to regret what I was doing. After all, he had no regrets; why should I? It seemed an age before the receptionist called me. As the minutes ticked by I thumbed through a back copy of a magazine which held absolutely no interest for me.

"Mr. Harrison, please come through now." It was the voice of the receptionist. At last, the wait was over. I stood up to follow her instruction.

"Good luck mate", said Derek, pressing my hand to reassure me.

"I need it", I replied tremulously. I felt sick in my stomach, my heart was racing and my hands were clammy. "I don't think I can go through with this", I said to myself as I slowly walked towards the door of the dentist's room, which was half ajar. As I entered I felt quite giddy. I could not speak.

I was half hoping when I walked into his room that the dentist would ask me again whether I was still absolutely sure. Had he done so at that moment, I think that I would have voiced my doubts. They would have tumbled out. However, he had his back to me when I entered and he did not turn around greet me. Before I sat down, I saw my new dentures on the counter beside the dentist's chair. In a moment I was transfixed. They looked fabulous. They were what I had been fantasising about for so long. Now it was to become a reality. My fears just vanished. I wanted them in my mouth so much and I knew I was within an hour or so of realising that objective. Expectantly I sat down in the operating chair.

"I need to ask you a last time. Are you sure you want to go through with this? You can stop if you want to. You can save your front teeth", said the dentist.

"No, I am sure I want the all my teeth out. Can we start?" I replied. I was by now absolutely certain. There was no turning back and I did not want to.

"Then I will do what you have asked for", said the dentist shrugging his shoulders and adopting his distant businesslike manner again.

What followed was the most exhilarating experience of my life. It was the abandon with which I had agreed to a process that for good or bad would affect my whole life. Perhaps, there is a similar thrill when you have agreed to extensive tattooing. I had never made such a capricious decision which could have such long lasting consequences. It was a decision that could never been unwound. The irresponsibility of it! It thrilled me. It made me almost drunk with excitement. I have never experienced such a high, before or since. It was a hypnotic experience, once the anesthetic had been administered. I hated the injections but once they were over, I knew that there was absolutely no saving the last of my teeth now. I was weak with excitement when the last of my front teeth were extracted. I had counted them down in my mind. "One, two, three,...twelve. All gone!" Before my dentures were fitted I tried to curl my lips around my empty gums. I had no sense of feeling yet. I bit downwards. My gums must have touched for the first time. My mouth seemed cavernous and empty, while my tongue was free to run all over my numbed gums and lips unimpeded.

Soon I had my dentures in my mouth. This was a very strange feeling, now all my teeth were gone and different from the trial dentures before the extractions. They seemed so big and awkward as I felt with my tongue the smooth surfaces of my dentures. I was told to keep my dentures in for the first two days after my extractions so it was only on the Saturday that I was able to take my dentures out to see myself toothless for the first time. I imagined that I would be shocked by the change. However, it was far better than I had expected. I opened my mouth wide so I could see the sockets which had started to heal. I moved my tongue, lips and jaws in every direction, experiencing a new freedom of movement and new sensations in my mouth. I looked at my new dentures; holding them up and examining them carefully. I liked the feel of the bulky plastic in my mouth and the way they looked, being absolutely standard issue National Health acrylic dentures; all pink with neat rows of even white teeth. There was a smooth transition between denture bases and the inner edges of the teeth against which my tongue rested as only the tops of the inner surface of the teeth showed above the denture bases. The biting surfaces of the back teeth were in a flat plane so that the dentures were not so easily dislodged when my back teeth were in contact together. In or out I was pleased with the result. A few weeks later when my gums were fully healed, I had my first toothless kiss with Derek. The sensation of somebody else's tongue on your gums is fantastic as was the experience of gumming your partner's lips and tongue. Whatever pain and discomfort I had been through, this was worth the wait. Over the next few months, I gradually became completely accustomed to dentures. After a while, eating was no problem. Talking with dentures also presented few difficulties. When after about six months, my dentures were permanently relined and my gums had stabilised, I had adapted fully to wearing them. Like Derek I had no regrets either. Neither did Derek, as I perfected my blow job and rimming techniques. Soon I was his equal in these departments. Now Derek took my dentures out before we had sex together. It turned him on as much as it did me.

Part Six

I continued to live in Nottingham for another year and a half. During that time I saw Derek regularly, although I never moved in with him. Then sadly I left the bank and moved back to Accrington to be near my father who was terminally ill. I used to have the occasional weekend with Derek but these became less frequent as the train journey across the country was quite tedious. Then we both found new partners and our relationship petered out. After a few years even our exchange of Christmas cards ceased. So I have not heard of Derek for at least twenty five years.

The events I have described happened over thirty years ago. I am now fifty three. Over all these years I have never regretted the loss of my teeth. During all this time I have had the pleasure of hearing the groans of delight as my gums start to caress and nibble at an erect penis or tantalise a receptive arse hole and the indescribable sensation of another tongue against my gums. I have also enjoyed everyday the sensitivity and mobility of a toothless mouth when I have my dentures out and cosmetically appealing, pain free teeth and the feel of my plates against my palate and gums when my dentures are in. My gums, particularly my lower gums, have shrunk a lot over the years so my dentures are not as stable as they were, with the result that at home in private I often have them out, just like Derek. Also like Derek I unconsciously loosen my dentures with my tongue and move them about my mouth when I am concentrating on work or reading. Despite all this, my dentures are still quite comfortable and I use them efficiently. I have no serious difficulties in eating or speaking. They have not affected my personal relationships either. Mike, my partner for the last twenty years, has become completely accustomed to me with or without my dentures, even though he has retained all his own teeth. In fact he always removes my dentures as a prelude to having sex, just as Derek used to do. Secretly I think my dentures turn him on too; only he will not admit it. It is good also not to have to go to the dentist and receive painful treatments. In fact I have not been for five years at least. Over the past few weeks Mike has been having root canal treatment on several teeth. "Why don't you just have them out and get dentures instead. Teeth are more trouble than they are worth", I told him. Immediately I uttered the words my mind went back to Derek and the advice of his father. Without it I suppose, I would not have been introduced to the pleasures of the edentate state; something for which I am always thankful to Derek and my chance meeting with him all those years ago.